Approved Log Mav's Liver Log

[Maverick602]

Mav’s Liver Log

Here’s the deal. I am going to post everything about my liver issues for four reasons.

First, with the hope I can help someone now and/or in the future.
Second, to catalog my experience so I can reference it in the future.
Third, to get input from VETS and those who have been through this shit before.
Fourth, as an outlet to deal with something that makes me uncomfortable.

My promise to you and this board. I will not hold back and what you get from me will be a genuine transparent experience. It might piss some people off and I guarantee some will disagree with me, but so be it.

And we’re off…

History:
Former athlete
Experienced with anabolic steroids(AS) beginning in college at the age of 18 with intermittent systematic usage of a number of common compounds for about 10 years or so before going natural. Hitting 40 years old, I saw a significant decline in strength, increase in BF and increase in injuries. A legacy Anabolex member from back in the day, I decided to return and dive back in. During my research, I learned about SARMS. Initially they sounded too good to be true, but given the feedback on with the Mods and Vets here, I decided to launch my first SARMS cycle May 2022


https://anabolex.com/community/threads/old-man-cycle-log-1st-sarms-cycle-sarms4sale.5720/

(Pre-cycle Liver values) March 2022
ALT – 32
AST – 18

CYCLE #1 - May 4, 2022 – August 24, 2022

SARMS “Healing Stack” - (Sarms4Sale)

1-12 Mk677 (NUTROBAL) 25 mg day dosed once a day in the p.m.
1-12 lgd-4033 (ANABOLICUM) 10 mg per day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-12 Mk2866 (OSTABOLIC) 25 mg per day first two weeks then bump to 50 mg per day, dosed once a day in the a.m.

9-12 N2generate https://www.needtobuildmuscle.com/store/hcgenerate-n2generate.html

Mini pct 13-16

Clomid 50/25/25/25 OR Nolva 40/20/20/20
Gw-501516 20 mg day
mk677 25 mg day

GAINS: I loved this cycle. The sides were manageable and minimal compared to AS and the gains were excellent. I was very happy.

Took about two months off and created my second cycle

CYCLE #2 – October 3rd through…well…never. Never fully started it and cut it short.

https://anabolex.com/community/threads/old-man-cycle-2.7501/

Old Man Cycle #2

October 3rd - November 12th
20mgs cardarine gw/day
50mgs ostarine mk/day

November 12th - January 7th
20mgs cardarine gw/day - Umbrella Labs
50mgs ostarine mk/day - Umbrella Labs
250mg/Ultima-TestoMix (sustanon) Ultima Pharmaceutical - from DS
organ liver support supplements

PCT - 6 weeks (assuming I need a full PCT because of the test dose)
Clomid - 50/50/50/5025/25
Nolva - 40/40/40/40/20/20
MK- 2866 - 25 mg/day
GW 501516 - 20mg/day
Aromasin 12.5 mg EOD

ISSUE #1:

Routine bloodwork October 15th was abnormal

ALT – 53
AST - 44

NOW, I posted a thread about these issues at the time

https://anabolex.com/community/threads/elevated-liver-enzymes-on-sarms.7312/

I admitted I started the second cycle without using N2Gaurd or other organ support and many were quick to jump to conclusions about the elevated enzymes being a result of this, but I now know that was not the case. (More on this later)

Within a week I was taking TUDCA, Milk Thistle and NAC

CYCLE Adjustment:

I stopped all the SARMS except for the 20mgs cardarine gw/day - Umbrella Labs
Lowered the Test dose to a TRT dose of .3ml of 200mg/ml cypionate twice per week
I have been on both since to this day

My doc scheduled a third blood test for January 4th and it was abnormal again.

ALT – 67
AST – 43 (dropped a point)

At this point, My doc scheduled a liver ultrasound and I was diagnosed with "MILD" non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. What causes NAFLD you may ask?

obesity
diabetes
high cholesterol
high triglycerides
poor diet

Usually a combination of more than 2 of the above.

Oddly enough, I have never had one of the above issues! Not one. I asked my family doc if the supplements could cause it and he said without question no.

I take little to no NSAIDS or Tylenol.

I do not drink alcohol.

Current Situation "cycle that is not a cycle":
TRT dose .3 ml 200mg/ml cypionate
20mgs cardarine gw/day Polycell formula - Umbrella Labs

Liver Specialist - MORE TESTING COMING:

I went to see a liver specialist a couple weeks back and they agreed that the cause of my diagnosis is supremely odd considering my good health. They ordered a ton of additional blood tests that were drawn earlier this week and I should have the results within two weeks. In addition to ALT and AST testing, they are also testing for a variety of auto-immune issues that might cause this.

In addition, they suggested I lose weight, despite not being fat. I am about roughly 18% BF at the moment, so I will lose some fat, but I imagine they are throwing that our because that is just what they normally do for this diagnosis. I was told by two docs that 95%+ of the people who have NAFLD are painfully fat. That I am not, nor ever have been.

This is just really effed up.

Opinion:

There is no way for me to prove this, but given my history it is hard to deny the possibility that this condition was a direct result of my first SARMS cycle. Good, bad or ugly.

Could it have been lying in wait? I guess that is a possibility but given the timing, not likely

Could it have been because my diet was not SUPER clean during that cycle? Possibly, but doubtful because outside of a few convenient meals, my diet was healthy.

Could it have been my age? I guess that is a possibility but given the timing, not likely

Not sure and I might never know, BUT….

…there are documented cases of SARMS induced liver issues as laid out in a recent post Dylan put up on how Umbrella Labs Poly Cell formula can bypass the liver (I hope and pray this is true so I can keep using them.)

In my opinion, if it looks like a duck and quacks...it's a duck.

https://anabolex.com/community/threads/umbrella-labs-special-poly-cell-formula-explained.4176/

NOTE: I was taking N2Gaurd the entire first cycle.

BTW…N2Gaurd is now available, but they changed their formula FYI.

Vitamin A dose cut down 70%
Thiamine daily value skewed
Calcium removed
Turmeric Extract replaced by Turmeric Root
Dandelion Root dose increased from 50 - 200mg
Uvas-ursi Leaf Extract compound and concentration changed
Rhodiola Root Extract values changed and dosage increased from 25-100mg
Bacopa Extract dose decreased from 25 - 6.35 mgAcetyl L-Carnitine L-Tartrate HCL changed to L-Carnitine Tartrate
Picroliv Removed & Picrorhiza Root added
Capparis Spinosa dose decreased from 50-5 mg
NAC removed
Milk Thistle dosage decreased from 300 - 75mg
Red Yeast Rice removed
Astragalus Root dosage decreased from 300 - 75mg

After learning more about liver health, I am stunned they removed NAC and do not have Vitamin E in this mix. Vitamin E is one of the only supplements that is proved to improve liver function and repair after multiple double-blind placebo-controlled tests.

Who knows…maybe the new formula is better. Who the hell knows.

Solution:
Diet is clean as ever right now. I am basically following the Mediterranean diet.

• Little to no saturated fats
• Absolutely no trans fats.
• Monounsaturated fats often
• Polyunsaturated fat often

I am inclined to stop taking everything including TRT until this corrects itself, but I am not sure. My endocrinologist said the liver issues were definitely not caused by the TRT and I believe that because of the timing and also there are studies that TRT improves liver function, but again, who knows. Everyone is different.

Lastly, there is an argument to take MK677 or HGH because it reduces fat around the liver(organs) however I do not believe Umbrella Labs carries a polycell MK677 formula.

Curious if anyone here reversed a NAFLD diagnosis.

OK bros…that’s it. Fire away.

 

[dylangemelli]

This is good to document for you and for many reading...

I cannot comment on the n2guard formula whatsoever... i have zero clue why the changes were made and thats something you should email them about.. i have zero information on that

as far as the liver values in general... a few things...

the number as they sit are slightly elevated from the normal range

ast 8-48
alt 7-55

so your numbers are not "alarming" but when compared to initial bloodwork, clearly something is off

lets just hypothesize that you got an increase in those values from sarms, which you certainly are not outright saying but sort of implying... if they did potentially cause it, which i still cannot see how with zero toxicity present but if they did, they would normalize once you discontinued use, so that really eliminates that as a cause... the reason oral steroids cause toxic side effects is because they are altered to bypass the liver and are c17 alpha alkylated... sarms do not have any of this present aside from yk11, which has some slight methylation but nothing anywhere near the level of a steroid... i have no idea what the actual cause is, as you can see there is a variety of possibilities but im sure the doctors will eventually figure it out

tudca is the best protectant for your liver and then nac is quite helpful... so those are two things i would definitely incorporate.. diet changes are something to obviously look at as well

 

[Maverick602]

This is good to document for you and for many reading...

I cannot comment on the n2guard formula whatsoever... i have zero clue why the changes were made and thats something you should email them about.. i have zero information on that

so your numbers are not "alarming" but when compared to initial bloodwork, clearly something is off

Hey bro...It's been a while. I hope all is well. Solid observations and comments.

As far as N2Gaurd is concerned, was on the fence whether to include that, but I think it is relevant info for people to have. Who knows why they changed the formula. I did reach out to them today and will let everyone know what Sasha says. This notes is an aside to the main reason for this post.

As far as being 'alarmed' or not, I am slightly alarmed because the values keep rising, but more distinctly because I have NONE of the indicators to Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease. If indicators were present, it would be easier to wrap my mind around this and just change my dietary patterns, but the cause is clear as mud.

That said, if the bloods drawn this past Monday present higher values than the January 4th test, I will definitely be worried.

As far as the SARMS being liver toxic, your theory about the values dropping once off is sound, but the last test I have where no orals were being ingested was March 2022. Between August 24th and October 4th I did not get a blood test. I guess is is plausible that they dropped and then bounced back up between October 4th and the 15th, but there is obviously no way to know now.

If my values on this week's bloods are higher, I am stopping the GW (Umbrella Labs Polycell) and sticking to just the TRT. In fact, I may start a PCT and come off the TRT and go cold turkey until this things get's figured out. Not sure.

Thanks for your input!

 

[BigArms42]

Mav’s Liver Log

Here’s the deal. I am going to post everything about my liver issues for four reasons.

First, with the hope I can help someone now and/or in the future.
Second, to catalog my experience so I can reference it in the future.
Third, to get input from VETS and those who have been through this shit before.
Fourth, as an outlet to deal with something that makes me uncomfortable.

My promise to you and this board. I will not hold back and what you get from me will be a genuine transparent experience. It might piss some people off and I guarantee some will disagree with me, but so be it.

And we’re off…

History:
Former athlete
Experienced with anabolic steroids(AS) beginning in college at the age of 18 with intermittent systematic usage of a number of common compounds for about 10 years or so before going natural. Hitting 40 years old, I saw a significant decline in strength, increase in BF and increase in injuries. A legacy Anabolex member from back in the day, I decided to return and dive back in. During my research, I learned about SARMS. Initially they sounded too good to be true, but given the feedback on with the Mods and Vets here, I decided to launch my first SARMS cycle May 2022


https://anabolex.com/community/threads/old-man-cycle-log-1st-sarms-cycle-sarms4sale.5720/

(Pre-cycle Liver values) March 2022
ALT – 32
AST – 18

CYCLE #1 - May 4, 2022 – August 24, 2022

SARMS “Healing Stack” - (Sarms4Sale)

1-12 Mk677 (NUTROBAL) 25 mg day dosed once a day in the p.m.
1-12 lgd-4033 (ANABOLICUM) 10 mg per day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-12 Mk2866 (OSTABOLIC) 25 mg per day first two weeks then bump to 50 mg per day, dosed once a day in the a.m.

9-12 N2generate https://www.needtobuildmuscle.com/store/hcgenerate-n2generate.html

Mini pct 13-16

Clomid 50/25/25/25 OR Nolva 40/20/20/20
Gw-501516 20 mg day
mk677 25 mg day

GAINS: I loved this cycle. The sides were manageable and minimal compared to AS and the gains were excellent. I was very happy.

Took about two months off and created my second cycle

CYCLE #2 – October 3rd through…well…never. Never fully started it and cut it short.

https://anabolex.com/community/threads/old-man-cycle-2.7501/

Old Man Cycle #2

October 3rd - November 12th
20mgs cardarine gw/day
50mgs ostarine mk/day

November 12th - January 7th
20mgs cardarine gw/day - Umbrella Labs
50mgs ostarine mk/day - Umbrella Labs
250mg/Ultima-TestoMix (sustanon) Ultima Pharmaceutical - from DS
organ liver support supplements

PCT - 6 weeks (assuming I need a full PCT because of the test dose)
Clomid - 50/50/50/5025/25
Nolva - 40/40/40/40/20/20
MK- 2866 - 25 mg/day
GW 501516 - 20mg/day
Aromasin 12.5 mg EOD

ISSUE #1:

Routine bloodwork October 15th was abnormal

ALT – 53
AST - 44

NOW, I posted a thread about these issues at the time

https://anabolex.com/community/threads/elevated-liver-enzymes-on-sarms.7312/

I admitted I started the second cycle without using N2Gaurd or other organ support and many were quick to jump to conclusions about the elevated enzymes being a result of this, but I now know that was not the case. (More on this later)

Within a week I was taking TUDCA, Milk Thistle and NAC

CYCLE Adjustment:

I stopped all the SARMS except for the 20mgs cardarine gw/day - Umbrella Labs
Lowered the Test dose to a TRT dose of .3ml of 200mg/ml cypionate twice per week
I have been on both since to this day

My doc scheduled a third blood test for January 4th and it was abnormal again.

ALT – 67
AST – 43 (dropped a point)

At this point, My doc scheduled a liver ultrasound and I was diagnosed with "MILD" non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. What causes NAFLD you may ask?

obesity
diabetes
high cholesterol
high triglycerides
poor diet

Usually a combination of more than 2 of the above.

Oddly enough, I have never had one of the above issues! Not one. I asked my family doc if the supplements could cause it and he said without question no.

I take little to no NSAIDS or Tylenol.

I do not drink alcohol.

Current Situation "cycle that is not a cycle":
TRT dose .3 ml 200mg/ml cypionate
20mgs cardarine gw/day Polycell formula - Umbrella Labs

Liver Specialist - MORE TESTING COMING:

I went to see a liver specialist a couple weeks back and they agreed that the cause of my diagnosis is supremely odd considering my good health. They ordered a ton of additional blood tests that were drawn earlier this week and I should have the results within two weeks. In addition to ALT and AST testing, they are also testing for a variety of auto-immune issues that might cause this.

In addition, they suggested I lose weight, despite not being fat. I am about roughly 18% BF at the moment, so I will lose some fat, but I imagine they are throwing that our because that is just what they normally do for this diagnosis. I was told by two docs that 95%+ of the people who have NAFLD are painfully fat. That I am not, nor ever have been.

This is just really effed up.

Opinion:

There is no way for me to prove this, but given my history it is hard to deny the possibility that this condition was a direct result of my first SARMS cycle. Good, bad or ugly.

Could it have been lying in wait? I guess that is a possibility but given the timing, not likely

Could it have been because my diet was not SUPER clean during that cycle? Possibly, but doubtful because outside of a few convenient meals, my diet was healthy.

Could it have been my age? I guess that is a possibility but given the timing, not likely

Not sure and I might never know, BUT….

…there are documented cases of SARMS induced liver issues as laid out in a recent post Dylan put up on how Umbrella Labs Poly Cell formula can bypass the liver (I hope and pray this is true so I can keep using them.)

In my opinion, if it looks like a duck and quacks...it's a duck.

https://anabolex.com/community/threads/umbrella-labs-special-poly-cell-formula-explained.4176/

NOTE: I was taking N2Gaurd the entire first cycle.

BTW…N2Gaurd is now available, but they changed their formula FYI.

Vitamin A dose cut down 70%
Thiamine daily value skewed
Calcium removed
Turmeric Extract replaced by Turmeric Root
Dandelion Root dose increased from 50 - 200mg
Uvas-ursi Leaf Extract compound and concentration changed
Rhodiola Root Extract values changed and dosage increased from 25-100mg
Bacopa Extract dose decreased from 25 - 6.35 mgAcetyl L-Carnitine L-Tartrate HCL changed to L-Carnitine Tartrate
Picroliv Removed & Picrorhiza Root added
Capparis Spinosa dose decreased from 50-5 mg
NAC removed
Milk Thistle dosage decreased from 300 - 75mg
Red Yeast Rice removed
Astragalus Root dosage decreased from 300 - 75mg

After learning more about liver health, I am stunned they removed NAC and do not have Vitamin E in this mix. Vitamin E is one of the only supplements that is proved to improve liver function and repair after multiple double-blind placebo-controlled tests.

Who knows…maybe the new formula is better. Who the hell knows.

Solution:
Diet is clean as ever right now. I am basically following the Mediterranean diet.

• Little to no saturated fats
• Absolutely no trans fats.
• Monounsaturated fats often
• Polyunsaturated fat often

I am inclined to stop taking everything including TRT until this corrects itself, but I am not sure. My endocrinologist said the liver issues were definitely not caused by the TRT and I believe that because of the timing and also there are studies that TRT improves liver function, but again, who knows. Everyone is different.

Lastly, there is an argument to take MK677 or HGH because it reduces fat around the liver(organs) however I do not believe Umbrella Labs carries a polycell MK677 formula.

Curious if anyone here reversed a NAFLD diagnosis.

OK bros…that’s it. Fire away.

@Maverick602 good new log I'm happy to see it

but on the n2guard I heard during pandemic FDA banned NAC in supplements and Amazon forced n2bm to remove it, thats why I heard NAC is gone from n2guard

 

[CEO]

bros happy to see a new log

 

[ROIDDERS]

Mav you a beast do it

 

[MONSTRO]

big log respect mav

 

[Vadim Fedorov]

N2guard changed because fda NAC rules

 

[2Thick]

I use n2guard now no NAC, absorbs better
and cool log

 

[e2]

G2G log I was waiting on this

 

[StevenDarwinMD]

APPROVED LOG

 

[Ulter]

best LOG in details so far that Ive seen

 

[QuadSweep]

do the updates more frequent diet training cardio supps
and n2guard remember NAC was amazon banned

 

[SteveSmi]

n2guard still has atleast 7 liver supplements the most important one being TUDCA. TUDCA is hands down the best for all organs too.

 

[JasonPriest]

wow what a great log maverick. helluva start

 

[BodyMonster34]

bro mav yo my hero for this

 

[Maverick602]

@Maverick602 good new log I'm happy to see it

but on the n2guard I heard during pandemic FDA banned NAC in supplements and Amazon forced n2bm to remove it, thats why I heard NAC is gone from n2guard

I did not know this and once I read your post, I researched it. No doubt. That is what happened. In 2020 the FDA recommended pulling it and all the retailers did pull it, but now it is widely available again....like everywhere. Very weird.

I have to read more on this.

 

[Maverick602]

n2guard still has atleast 7 liver supplements the most important one being TUDCA. TUDCA is hands down the best for all organs too.

In addition to N2Gaurd I am taking 1000mg of TUDCA daily plus 400mg of VitaminE

I pray this works to reverse the NAFLD.

The great things is that there is a very good chance I can reverse this issue. The tests being conducted now are to determine many things, but one of them is if I have scaring on the liver. If I don't have scarring, I should be in good shape.

 

[Maverick602]

wow what a great log maverick. helluva start

Thanks bro

 

[25homes]

much respect on this LOG bro big ups